Switching from Palm to Windows Mobile platform - question

[tbessie]

I am switching from a combination of Agendus for Windows/Palm Desktop Edition and Agendus for Palm on my Palm TX, to Outlook on Windows and a new device, a Windows Mobile 6 Pro smartphone - it's an HTC Kaiser (aka AT&T Tilt, though I didn't get the AT&T version).

It has a touchscreen, but is also a phone.

I've already changed my sync method to use Outlook on the desktop. If I switch from Agendus for Windows/Palm Desktop Edition, to Agendus for Windows/Outlook Edition, will all of my preexisting linked contacts, contacts associated with events, contact relationships, trips, etc. already be available to me? That is, is the Agendus info that is stored in the Notes field all I need, or will I have lost Agendus-only databases that contain this information?

Also, which version of Agendus for Windows Mobile should I install? The Smartphone version or the regular Windows Mobile version, given that this device uses Windows Mobile 6 Pro, has a touchscreen, and is a phone?

Also, will, again, my preexisting linked contacts, trips, etc. be available on the Windows Mobile version of Agendus?

And finally, if I own Agendus Pro for Palm (both handheld and desktop) and want to switch to the Windows version of both, can I get any kind of discount on the bundle, or do I have to pay full price?

- Tim

[hezahonker]

Hi Tim,

Sorry this got overlooked. Did you find your answers?

[kabbisa]

i'm in the exactly the same point... i'm switching from a Palm Tungsten TX device, with both agendus for palm and desktop, to a HTC touch.

Well, i allways tried not to use outlook microsoft, but i'm finding this really hard this time... my device asks for it, and is not giving me alternative.

I have the same doubts and i'm not finding the answers. If you could help me... please, .. at least where to start with...

[Allibama]

Exactly what are your questions? The HTC devices all appear to take the Pocket PC version of Agendus (for starters). I also recently got the HTC Tilt (although just for fun as I would never willingly give up Palm!), and that's what I've installed. The whole Outlook issue is a much bigger pain!

[kabbisa]

well, my first doubt is if i will be able to use agendus the same way i did with my palm. I've been using agendus for a great while, so i'm having trouble with the m.outlook.

I've seen the agendus for outlook is like an add-on, so .. well, i can try and download it and see it myself, but ...

it's more about asking for help in my first steps with this non-palm device.

[Allibama]

The winmob world is very different. You have no convenient (and free) Palm desktop to work with, and are forced to use Outlook for your pim conduit.

The version of Agendus for the winmob platforms is still relatively new, and not quite up to par with the Palm version yet. Same with the desktop Outlook edition.

[hezahonker]

Hi kabbisa,

Welcome to Windows Mobile. The HTC Touch will use The WM Pocket PC version. I suggest Agendus Professional Version found here. (http://www.iambic.com/agendus/wmppc/) You may review it's features on the product page. We have a nice beta testing session going on here (http://support.iambic.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=127) if you are that type of person who likes helping with development. I would think your feedback would be very helpful since you are coming from the palm side. Please be mindful that we are only on V2 in the WM Forums so the product is very young and has big shoes to fill. However, it is essential that we have the best testers who can give us feedback. This will help us get to our ultimate goal to match the palm features. I won't lie, this won't happen over night. This is a tall order and it will have to be done gradually so we can maintain good stability.

I am a former Palm user myself and have loved having a WM device. It may seem awkward at first but we will be here to help you with anything you may need. Please don't be shy in asking.

For your desktop, you will want to try for sure the Windows Edition for Outlook. As you know, we currently have a beta going on here. (http://support.iambic.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=121) There should be a free copy of Outlook right on the HTC installation CD if you don't already have it.

Please take time to read through the forums to familiarize yourself with issues and features. This post (http://support.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31311) should be helpful.

[kabbisa]

Thank you, hezahonker

Really i will be a member of beta testers!!! I hope you'll understand my poor english, but i'll try and do my best.
I've already found two things i didn't like (at all) in agendus for my ppc. I desinstalled it in the five minutes i was with it! I've already found the v.2.1 exe and will participate when i find a camera to be able to post screenshots!
Only telling you the first thing was so obvious i was amazed i didn't find anyone writing about my same problem!!!


Allibama, you are quite right, win programs force us too many things... and i'm really sad of leaving my palm at home (actually, i haven't done it :D )...

[hezahonker]

Thank you, hezahonker

Really i will be a member of beta testers!!! I hope you'll understand my poor english, but i'll try and do my best.
I've already found two things i didn't like (at all) in agendus for my ppc. I desinstalled it in the five minutes i was with it! I've already found the v.2.1 exe and will participate when i find a camera to be able to post screenshots!
Only telling you the first thing was so obvious i was amazed i didn't find anyone writing about my same problem!!!


Allibama, you are quite right, win programs force us too many things... and i'm really sad of leaving my palm at home (actually, i haven't done it :D )...

hmmmm, I am not sure I understand what you mean by first problem? V2 of PPC Agendus will be way different than V12 of Palm since the Palm version has been around many many years and we are just starting PPC version of Agendus.

[kabbisa]

jajaja.. it is only that meetings cannot be edited!!!

In the htc touch dual, i can use five different "screen keyboards", and i can only "see what i am writing" when editing in the agendus v.2. when using 3 of them, the "touch panel" or the "touch keyboard" use nearly half the screen, so all i see when editing a meeting is the top and bottom buttons in agendus, not the text that i'm writing :)

As i said, i will post whatever i see in the beta forums, when i have the screenshots! :D it will be easier to understand!

(also, as i have a spanish htc... i'm not able to say the exact words used in the english menu)

[hezahonker]

jajaja.. it is only that meetings cannot be edited!!!

In the htc touch dual, i can use five different "screen keyboards", and i can only "see what i am writing" when editing in the agendus v.2. when using 3 of them, the "touch panel" or the "touch keyboard" use nearly half the screen, so all i see when editing a meeting is the top and bottom buttons in agendus, not the text that i'm writing :)

As i said, i will post whatever i see in the beta forums, when i have the screenshots! :D it will be easier to understand!

(also, as i have a spanish htc... i'm not able to say the exact words used in the english menu)

We are aware of the Screen Keyboard issue.

[kabbisa]

We are aware of the Screen Keyboard issue.


So, nancy, do you have a place where i can be updated with all the "problems" you are aware of in the beta forums?

because, i wasn't able to find any mention of it...

[hezahonker]

So, nancy, do you have a place where i can be updated with all the "problems" you are aware of in the beta forums?

because, i wasn't able to find any mention of it...

There is a discussion regarding this issue here. http://support.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31870&highlight=HTC

One of our Team Members runs a Touch and he is using TenGo in Nano mode.

[EP2005]

There is a discussion regarding this issue here. http://support.iambic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31870&highlight=HTC

One of our Team Members runs a Touch and he is using TenGo in Nano mode.

:D I'm the one running TenGo in Nano mode :up:

The problem with the HTC keyboards is the mega-size they operate at. Because I use my stylus more than my fingers to type, using TenGo isn't a problem for me.

If you still want to use your fingers to type on the HTC, I would suggest looking for another "finger-friendly" keyboard that doesn't take up so much space. I'm quite certain there are freeware alternatives to the HTC keypad.

[kabbisa]

i'll try a new keyboard, before i get too used to this one!! :) its nice already.

The thing is, i'm getting used not to get out the stylus...

Anyway, ... don't you think agendus for ppc should have a more "finger-friendly" view? [...


i'm editing: for the "contact" part?

[EP2005]

One thing you can try is to set agendus to use outlook edit screen.

Go to your Agendus preferences -> All Views -> "use pocket outlook entry/ edit dialogs.

[kabbisa]

One thing you can try is to set agendus to usea outlook edit screen.

Go to your Agendus preferences -> All Views -> "use pocket outlook entry\ edit dialogss.

Well, this won't do...

i like the calendar part in agendus, ... i know it much better than the outlook, and i'm having some "problems" when trying to edit/forward/create a meeting in the ms outlook calendar.

It is the agendus contact part, the one i think should be given a "finger friendly" thought.



EP2005, i really think it is hard for me to explain in english this things... (if it is hard in spanish, my languaje, you can think in english...).
I really like agendus, and have some thoughts about it in the ppc. I'm not really looking for bugs, but trying to be more exigent with the utilities it can give.
I would love to give my points of view to iambic for the development of this product.
Do you think i could send a spanish letter with my suggestions?
I would be able to translate some parts of it but, i'm sure i would not be able to be as specific in english...

[EP2005]

Well, this won't do...

i like the calendar part in agendus, ... i know it much better than the outlook, and i'm having some "problems" when trying to edit/forward/create a meeting in the ms outlook calendar.

It is the agendus contact part, the one i think should be given a "finger friendly" thought.



EP2005, i really think it is hard for me to explain in english this things... (if it is hard in spanish, my languaje, you can think in english...).
I really like agendus, and have some thoughts about it in the ppc. I'm not really looking for bugs, but trying to be more exigent with the utilities it can give.
I would love to give my points of view to iambic for the development of this product.
Do you think i could send a spanish letter with my suggestions?
I would be able to translate some parts of it but, i'm sure i would not be able to be as specific in english...

Of course we always welcome feedback! Especially constructive criticism to help enhance the software.

I don't speak Spanish, but please feel free to attach a list of things you find could be improved with Agendus - we do have Iambic Forum Team Members that would be able to translate it to English for the developers :up:

[kabbisa]

Ok, in spanish.

Primero me voy a definir como usuaria.
He sido usuaria de palm desde hace años, siempre palms sin teléfono. De modo que mi uso de agendus era para el calendario, de forma relativamente intensiva, y para los contactos a modo de guía de teléfonos.
El año pasado comprobé que debía dar el paso a un teléfono con agenda/calendario potente, tipo palm. Las razones de no saltar a una treo no vienen al caso, creo.
El tema es que me pasé a windows mobile (tengo un htc dual).

Ante todo, dejar claro que agendus es para mí una aplicación imprescindible.
Pero la separo en dos grandes apartados:
- calendario (donde apuntarse citas, tareas y incluso memos)
- contactos (teléfonos y relaciones)

En la palm (no-teléfono), calendario y contactos iban juntos por naturaleza, pues generalmente siempre se tiene una reunión con alguien o se tienen tareas de llamar a alguien o de hacer algo por alguien.

Pero en un dispositivo con teléfono, el apartado contactos adquiere su propia importancia independiente del calendario.

Por lo poco que he visto de agendus en win (aún me dura la demo -versión 2.1 build 344), creo encontrarme ante un fallo de filosofía en el apartado de contactos.

En un dispositivo con teléfono, y sobretodo en un dispositivo tactil el apartado contactos debería tener una orientación más dirigida a poder llamar más facilmente a cualquiera de los contactos. Sea como vista o directamente modificando el sistema original.
En la demo que tengo, el apartado contactos sería FANTASTICO para mi palm, con sus pestañitas para ordenar los campos de entrada, una guia de teléfonos super completa. Pero para mi HTC resulta súmamente más incomodo que el apartado contactos de serie (pero éste no se integra al calendario).

Evidentemente, si quiero introducir datos de un contacto, sí que me voy a pasar el tiempo necesario para apuntar todos los detalles. Pero no para llamar.
De la misma manera, si quiero ver los datos de un contacto, sí que me interesa verlos ordenados, aunque tenga que darle diez toques a la pantalla. Pero no para llamar.

Cuando quiero llamar a alguien por teléfono, no quiero tener que darle cinco toques a la pantalla antes de llegar al numero que quiero usar... Quiero algo más rápido y sencillo.
Quiero poder llamar con los mínimos toques en la pantalla, e incluso sin usar el stylus. Porque nadie quiere tardar más en buscar el numero de teléfono y marcarlo que en la llamada propiamente dicha!

Me da la sensación que filosóficamente hablando, se intenta crear un sólo agendus (para win y palm), sean dispositivos tactiles o no tactiles.
Y creo que el apartado de contactos es el que más nota los defectos de no pensar en cómo lo usan los usuarios de cada tipo de dispositivo.

No sé como es agendus en una treo, pero supongo que me hubiera encontrado con el mismo problema: una aplicación de contactos fantástica como guía de teléfonos pero incomodísima para usar para llamar.

No os lo toméis a mal, pues al contrario, me encanta agendus, me encanta iambic, y me gustaria poder seguir usando agendus como predeterminado en mi ppc.
Pero me parecía conveniente daros a conocer mi visión y mi creencia en que el apartado de contactos debería revisarse... no sólo añadiendo funcionalidades que ya existian en las versiones de palm, sino al revés, partiendo de cómo sería más práctico su uso.

Esperando que mi feedback sea realmente util, y esperando que me preguntéis si teneis alguna duda sobre lo que escribo,
Un saludo
kabbisa

(i hope you will understand what i mean. If not, please, do contact me for any acclaration)

[EP2005]

Ok, in spanish.

(i hope you will understand what i mean. If not, please, do contact me for any acclaration)

Thanks for all this! I will make sure we can get someone to translate this information to the developers. :up:

[kabbisa]

i hope it will be of use... lots of words but really only one suggestion :o

[casapel]

Hi,
I read through your review and I have a suggestion for you. I am using Agendus for Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition, version 2.1, but it is probably similar in the other edition

Cuando quiero llamar a alguien por teléfono, no quiero tener que darle cinco toques a la pantalla antes de llegar al numero que quiero usar... Quiero algo más rápido y sencillo.

To Dial a Phone Number:

You are probably using Compacted Mode:
1. Find the contact
2. Open the contact
3. Press MENU
4. Select Dial Contact
5. Select the phone number

It is much faster if you use Expanded Mode:
1. Find the contact
2. Select the Phone Number

To Find a Contact faster:
Enter the letters of the persons name in the Filter, press Enter.

P.S. I am putting this in English so that other users who might have the same desire can benefit. If you need translation or an explanation, let me know.

[kabbisa]

Thank you, casapel, i'm able to understand "really well" written english.

Your suggestion is a start, BUT, its not the real solution, in my point of view. if i had to move around the agendus with buttons or only with the stylus, the solution you give me would be great (its what i did with my palm).
But then, iambic would not be taking advantage of ALL the funcionalities of the touchscreen. And thats what i'm trying to suggest:
In any touchscreen telephone (not only windows) agendus is not using all of its potential because the users have to adapt too much to it.

Agendus has lots of views to make a better feeling to lots of users with different ways of using it. But in the 15 days i'm running it, i've found myself having to change the writing panel so i could see the editing i did in the calendar (i'm not so worried here) AND having to change too much the way i like to use the contacts (the important thing here is: USING the contacts).

Iambic expect me to change too many things, when i'm sure, at least the contact part would be lots better if re-thought (or if created a new view for it, much more finger friendly).

[casapel]

I understand the reasons behind your suggestion, and that you want to be able to dial by using touchscreen buttons. What would the buttons be?

Perhaps your idea is not yet fully developed. In that case, maybe it would help to think of it this way:

Suppose you had your ideal way of calling a contact using the touchscreen. Let's say you want to call Juan García. How would you do it?

[kabbisa]

ok, then, let me explain in spanish.

En el htc dual, el apartado de contactos es bastante "finger friendly". De echo, lo encuentro muy acertado, pues es suficientemente completo para introducir/ver la información del contacto (vía stylus), pero a la hora de llamar, es lo suficientemente "grande" para llamar usando los dedos. (ojo, no hablo de tener un teclado en la pantalla, que eso está por otro lado y no es cosa de iambic ni de ninguna aplicación de contactos).

Para llamar a Juan García desde el htc, abro la aplicación de contactos.
Con el dedo, selecciono la letra inicial ( J ) [en mi configuración, el htc tiene la lista alfabética a la derecha].
Luego, empujo los contactos hacia arriba hasta encontrar a Juan García.
Lo selecciono con el dedo, y en pantalla salen todos sus teléfonos (estan en campos grandes, con el dedo puedo tocar un teléfono en concreto sin temor a equivocarme).

El caso es qeu en principio es igual que en agendus - expanded mode, PERO la gran diferencia es que con agendus debo vigilar no tocar otro de los teléfonos por error.

-----

let me paste a link: http://www.coolsmartphone.com/article740.html
Nearly at the end, there's a point "Contacts and dialling" where you can read about the alfabet listing i told before (there's a video where it shows how to manage it with the stylus, but i do it perfectly well with my finger).

What i haven't found is a screenshot of the telephone list... :(

i'm not saying iambic must copy... i'm saying i know iambic can do it much better!!

[casapel]

Primarily you need larger buttons on the touchscreen so that when you touch them, you don't hit other buttons by accident.

The HTC Dual slider feature looks interesting.

Do you have the Alphabetical Filter shown? Are these some of the buttons you would need larger to touch with your fingers?

[kabbisa]

Primarily you need larger buttons on the touchscreen so that when you touch them, you don't hit other buttons by accident.

exactly. That's the point.


The HTC Dual slider feature looks interesting.

Do you have the Alphabetical Filter shown?

yes, the alphabetical filter is shown always, and it is usable (with the stylus). And it is no problem to use stylus when looking for someone if you don't find it in a first view...


Are these some of the buttons you would need larger to touch with your fingers?

any button directly related to making a call would be useful in a larger size, so it would be easier for users to phone somebody.

The other buttons (that is, the ones not related to a call) are perfect as they are now... smaller, so we can use more screen for other things.

[Jerry C]

Tim's questions in the start of this thread were mine as well - and I didn't see them answered. I am about to move from my Palm to the AT&T Tilt, which means I need to move from Agendus for Palm Desktop to Agendus for Outlook, and Agendus for Palm to Agendus for Pocket PC. Tim's questions included:

-- will the preexisting links in his personal contacts and calander items survive the transition?

-- Will the notes, journal entries, etc. also make the trip?

-- As a current Agendus for Palm and Windows Palm Desktop owner - is there a discount when changing platforms or are we starting over?

Jerry

[Allibama]

I'm sure someone else will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that only your notes, journal entries, etc. will make the trip. Since Outlook doesn't have the same links capabilities as AGP, those probably won't transfer over, although I have never tried this so I don't know for sure.

I've enver seen a platform change discount.

[Jerry C]

Thanks for the response. I don't really worry about the discount, and I know that the Mobile PC is being offered to me at 50% off.

But you say "Outlook does not have the same link capablities" - but how about Agendus for Outlook? If I install Agendus for Outlook first, and then migrate my data from Agendus For Palm over - will the icons, the journal entries, the colors, the links, etc. transfer over? Will the categories I have set up for meetings and tasks and contacts remain?

And will they remain for Mobile PC as well? If I am going to lose all that, I might as well shop around for software, rather than assume I can pretty much keep keep my data content intact with Agendus.

[Allibama]

Providing AGW-OE works the same as the PDE, the linked contacts will carry over. I don't know if the WM version has this or not, perhaps someone else can address this question.

[hezahonker]

AGWM does not offer link support in terms of adding items.

It can only see what the description, contact, attendees, note, icon (granted you are using the default or bring over the existing icon set re these instructions: http://support.iambic.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=262)

In terms of Daily Journal, it will transfer as well as long as you are syncing with Outlook before you make the switch.

If I have time I will compile a list of what carries over at present so that new users can see this.

[Jerry C]

Just so I am clear: If I install Agendus OE, it will import directly from Agendus PE, correct? Then I can open Outlook and all that will be there? Or do I have to do some import into Outlook from Agendus Palm Desktop?

After that, I then sync with AGWM.

In other words, will I be transferring data from my Agendus Palm Edition to the new Agendus Outlook Edition, or will I first be running some import function in Outlook to take all my Agendus data (and losing what it can't take), before installing Agendus Outlook Edition?

[hezahonker]

Just so I am clear: If I install Agendus OE, it will import directly from Agendus PE, correct? Then I can open Outlook and all that will be there? Or do I have to do some import into Outlook from Agendus Palm Desktop?

After that, I then sync with AGWM.

In other words, will I be transferring data from my Agendus Palm Edition to the new Agendus Outlook Edition, or will I first be running some import function in Outlook to take all my Agendus data (and losing what it can't take), before installing Agendus Outlook Edition?

Hi Jerry,

Sorry to keep you waiting. I am sure you are anxious to get started.

All you need to do is sync your palm with outlook (Agendus Outlook Edition will read what is in Outlook) before you sync your WM device. :)

To do this, reinstall your Palm Desktop Software from the CD and select to Hotsync with outlook. Then, sync your Palm with Outlook. Agendus Outlook Edtion simply reads what is in outlook and interprets this. If you look at a meeting or task item in Outook (not Agendus Outlook Edtion) each item note contains special controls called "Tags" that carry over your information so that Agendus Outlook Edtion and WM Edtion can read it. In fact, this gives you the answer as to what gets synchronized exactly (See this: http://support.iambic.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=292) Please note, however, that while those tags are carried over- not all of those tags will work in Outlook Edition or WM Edition because those editions are still being developed. Agendus Palm Edition is a lot older than WM and Outlook editions. ;) They will get there eventually though.

A final note, if you have any custom icon sets you are using on your palm and you want to use them on your WM device, follow these instructions:http://support.iambic.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=178

[Jerry C]

Ok - to be clear before I begin. This is what I do:
1. Purchase the Agendus bundle for Windows and Mobile PC
2. After making sure my Palm is in sync, uninstall Agendus Palm Desktop, and reinstall it, this time selecting to sync with Outlook.
3. Sync with Outlook, thereby bringing it current in all that it can be (meetings, contacts, etc.)
4. Install Agendus for Windows, which will prompt me to do what else needs to be done to bring my desktop into order, and uninstall Agendus for Palm.
5. Install Agendus Mobile PC, hot sync it, and away we go!

Is that it?

[hezahonker]

Ok - to be clear before I begin. This is what I do:
1. Purchase the Agendus bundle for Windows and Mobile PC
2. After making sure my Palm is in sync, uninstall Agendus Palm Desktop, and reinstall it, this time selecting to sync with Outlook.
3. Sync with Outlook, thereby bringing it current in all that it can be (meetings, contacts, etc.)
4. Install Agendus for Windows, which will prompt me to do what else needs to be done to bring my desktop into order, and uninstall Agendus for Palm.
5. Install Agendus Mobile PC, hot sync it, and away we go!

Is that it?

1. If you own Agendus for Palm Desktop you already have access to Agendus for Outlook edition. Just go to your "My Iambic" account to download it and your code will work with that as well. In regard to purchasing Agendus for Windows Mobile. Also, check your "My Iambic" account for special offers first, OK? :D You are welcome to install the trial first before you buy so you can try it to make sure it meets your needs.

2. After you sync your palm with your PC, and you have all the info in the Palm you want to transfer to outlook, uninstall Palm Desktop not Agendus Palm Desktop and reinstall it-

3. Correct. :D

4. Correct

5. Yep, you got it. You will have an installation disk with your device and you must install outlook and Activesync first from that disk. Then you are set to go. New vocabulary to use: Agendus for Windows Mobile and Activesync. :p :D:haha:

[hezahonker]

I am going to tack this KB article in our support KB here as well, but for now I include it here. This explains a bit about the devices that have the extended PIM features and those that don't and what to do: http://kb.palm.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=PalmSupportKB,ts=Palm_External20 01,Case=obj(24276)